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United States of America - Trump

daniellilley

26 months ago

What does PCPP think of the USA's current situation? Discuss in a calm and nice manner. Be respectful to other opinions. Personally I like the situation of America and I think America is going forward.

Comments

  • 26 months ago
  • 9 points

Not a big fan of the current administration. A decent amount of broken promises and lots of stumbles along the way. IMO, he isn't the right person for the job.

  • 26 months ago
  • 3 points

he doesn't have support from his own party and the democrats will do everything they can to get him out of office. Pretty hard to accomplish something if you don't have much support.

  • 26 months ago
  • 4 points

I'd like to point out that Obama was able to complete a decent amount of his actions even though the house was completely against him. Perhaps the reason he can't get anything done is because his party doesn't trust him based on his current actions?

  • 26 months ago
  • 3 points

I'd like to point out that Obama was able to complete a decent amount of his actions even though the house was completely against him.

Obama had 8 years to do this, Trump hasn't even been in office for a year.

He can only really make progress within the limits of his branch and power, checks and balances make sure no branch has too much power in the first place.

We've got some time to see what happens, and we can vote him out if its that bad, just have to wait and see.

  • 26 months ago
  • 2 points

Obama had 8 years to do this, Trump hasn't even been in office for a year.

When Obama began his first term, there was a majority of Democrats in Congress and they supported him. It was only later in his two terms that the majority (first in the House, then 2014 for the Senate) flipped to Republicans who opposed him every step of the way. His later years were characterized by gridlock and opposition, it was his early years that were 'productive'.

This same Republican majority has carried over into Trump's first term, and he should ostensibly be enjoying the benefits of the Republican Congress. Except the Republican majority doesn't support him like the Democratic majority supported Obama. Trump is complaining about gridlock and opposition from Democrats but they don't actually have the power that the Republicans did when they gridlocked Obama's final years. Truthfully the opposition is as much from Republicans as it is from Democrats.

  • 26 months ago
  • 2 points

Yes, I agree. Thank you for adding to my statement :)

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  • 26 months ago
  • 2 points

The House wasn't actually completely against Obama until several years into his presidency. He enjoyed a majority in the House and Senate during the beginning of his term, just like Trump should be.

Perhaps the reason he can't get anything done is because his party doesn't trust him based on his current actions?

This is accurate.

  • 26 months ago
  • 1 point

he doesn't have support from his own party

This should be bold and underlined.

But it should also be stressed that you don't get people to support you by being belligerent and obtuse. Trump doesn't escape the blame of "not getting things done" just because he doesn't have any support. His actions determine why he doesn't have any support.

  • 26 months ago
  • 0 points

this

  • 26 months ago
  • 6 points

I personally don't care. As long as Trump doesn't get me drafted into WWIII, I'm fine.

  • 26 months ago
  • 4 points

Discuss in a calm and nice manner. Be respectful to other opinions

Good luck.

I personally think America is making negative progress and I am not a supporter of Trump. Focusing on nit pick issues while ignoring large ones, making us look less attractive to our allies, defunding important programs, generally looking like a jackass which hurts our image as a whole, etc.

He was not the right person for the job and he is proving that every day.

  • 26 months ago
  • 1 point

How is he proving every day he was the wrong man for the job exactly?

  • 26 months ago
  • 2 points

There are countless answers to this question, but to avoid an argument I'll choose not to give one.

  • 26 months ago
  • 1 point

I don't think he is a perfect man, I'd say he's a bit of a narcissist and a letdown as far as scientific reasons go, but I seriously don't think he is ruining the country more every day.

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  • 26 months ago
  • 4 points

I stopped making political posts because I felt like OT had become exhausted of them, lol. I am impressed by the turnout here. The OT regulars already know my feelings on the matter, but I'll just make a few comments:

First: Trump is an objectively bad person. This is not hyperbole; with the exception perhaps being nihilists (but even then you may take issue with his inflated sense of self-importance), any person of any worldview should find at least a couple seriously objectionable qualities in Trump. Whether it is his history of adultery (and the way he relishes it), fraud, sexism, hiring illegal labor, stiffing contractors, using charity money to pay for settlements and personal purchases, mocking the disabled, cluelessness on political policy, history of racism both in business and on the campaign trail, vanity, his brutal murder of the English language, his belligerent and pugnacious public persona, technological illiteracy, obsession with cable news and tabloids, wildly vacillating political positions, nepotism, or his blatant lying to the American people, there is, as they say, something for everyone. This is all widely documented in the public record. I'm sure most would agree this list, if taken at face value, constitutes a veritable deluge of despicable qualities for a single person to hold, and I don't even need to mention Russia.

Second: If you voted for or supported Trump, you have to own these truths. There is no way around it: all of this was public knowledge and trumpeted (heh) full-blast prior to the election (some have grown excruciatingly more overt since the inauguration). You voted for these qualities being the ones leading America and the free world. You looked at this laundry list of bad ideas and said "I am ok with this."

Third: If your defense of Trump or counterpoint to any anti-Trump statement begins with "but Hillary", or, "but Obama", or, "but CNN", then you have no defense for Trump. And that is fine, truly, but let's call it what it is: deflection. If your impulse to defend something is to point at something else and talk about that, you are not defending, you are deflecting. As it happens, Trump is masterful at this maneuver.

  • 26 months ago
  • 1 point

Well I mean, usually the defense for people that hate Trump is but Trump (insert something about him being a bigot). You addressed nothing politically. It was completely about his personality, which doesn't change our economy or unemployment.

  • 26 months ago
  • 2 points

Criticizing him on policy is somewhat difficult to do as he's never really had a cohesive policy or plan. His official policies are usually "Make stuff better" and letting the GOP fill in what that actually means.

I mean so far the thing the GOP seems to be spending all their energy on is repealing the ACA and replacing it with a glorified tax cut for the wealthy that will boot 20+ million people off of insurance according to the CBO reports.

Has our economy or employment even changed since he was elected? I know he tried to claim the success of Obama's economic policies as his own almost immediately after being elected but I haven't really heard him say much else. I know he's trying to bring back coal jobs which... seems a bit of a lost cause to me.

  • 26 months ago
  • 1 point

It isn't purely a tax cut for the wealthy, also, he has said exactly what his plans are, which are really making stuff better. He's doing a lot for how long he's been in office, considering Obama was in for 8, he's done even more. He passed the keystone pipeline, which made quite a few jobs, however I will agree environmentally he is a problem. Global warming exists unfortunately. It is hard to tell to what degree. Nothing we hear is true more than likely on both sides.

  • 26 months ago
  • 1 point

he has said exactly what his plans are

exactly what his plans are

exactly

making stuff better

  • 26 months ago
  • 2 points

You addressed nothing politically. It was completely about his personality

I've talked at length in past posts and on Discord about policy issues. This thread is titled "United States of America - Trump" after all, so discussing him seems appropriate. Also it has been covered elsewhere in here that there isn't much to discuss policy-wise.

Trump has made clear he hasn't the foggiest idea or plan about any policies: whether it is his about-face on NATO, his about-face on China as a currency manipulator, his change of tune after a 10 minute conversation with Xi Jinping about North Korea and China, his insistence that we do absolutely nothing in Syria until the day he sees a particularly tragic news story and decides to impulsively strike an air base there (and then promptly drops the issue afterwards), or his insistence that he's going to cover more people with better healthcare at lower costs all throughout the campaign only to completely abdicate any involvement with the policy after the inauguration beyond scolding Republicans on Twitter. It is clear he is flying by the seat of his pants here. His policy agenda ended at "repeal Obamacare" and "deregulate all the things".

His policy related accomplishments amount to not much to be excited for. Some highlights and my thoughts: signing off on repeals of environmental regulations(dangerous), deregulate Wall Street (also dangerous), pushing for an ill-conceived border wall (just dumb), implementing a hiring freeze for non-mission-critical civilian roles(debatable how useful this is but I appreciate the sentiment), verbally flogging Republicans to pass anything with the word 'healthcare' in it (stupid), threatening to scuttle NAFTA (hurts consumers), getting into Twitter fights with celebrities (ok this one isn't policy but it is relevant to his work while in office, lol), continuing NASA's mission to build towards Mars (yay!), pulling out of Paris Climate Accord (stupid, unless you believe climate change is a Chinese hoax, then it makes sense), enabling churches to act as tax-exempt super PACs (absolutely terrible), barring executive branch employees from becoming lobbyists for 5 years after their departure/termination (which is really just extending an executive order Obama had already put in place, but I am ok with it), and sort-of banning refugees that just so happen to be Muslim (after his first attempt was a bit too obvious in its religious discrimination).

Literally as I was typing this he just decreed (from his Twitter, because this is how executive actions are taken now) that transgender people are banned from military service, because they're too disruptive. You can take that one however you want.

tl;dr: the year has been spent policy-wise fighting tooth-and-nail to go backwards. When Trump isn't QWOPing from one scandal to the next, he's enacting regressive policies that threaten us economically and socially.

  • 26 months ago
  • 1 point

About NATO i agree with trump about the funding part. Europe's armies are almost non existent. Europe has to rely on the US to do the heavy lifting. Soldiers from the Belgian army, Dutch army and german army for example have to shout "pang pang" during training because of the ammunition shortages. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3185723/Soldiers-forced-shout-bang-bang-training-ammunition-shortages-Dutch-army.html

Like during the libya crisis Europe was shouting that khadaffi must be removed and after 1 month we didn't have any bombs left to launch and effective military campaign so we had to rely on the US. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nato-runs-short-on-some-munitions-in-libya/2011/04/15/AF3O7ElD_story.html?hpid=z1

Europe must do more to boost its defences especially if you look at other major nations in Asia in the Middle east are expanding their militaries very fast and we must stop relying on the US.

About Syria he did warn asssad that if he launched a chemical attack the US would retaliate. He wouldn't be like obama who said the same but didn't do anything. The reason why he only bombed 1 airfield (Hillary wanted to wipe out the entire syrian airforce btw http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/06/politics/hillary-clinton-syria-assad/index.html) was that Russia had put its entire AA system in Syria on high alert and they would shoot down every NATO aircraft entering syrian airspace so thus he maybe avoided WW3.

About the paris climate accords. It was a bad deal for the US (and Europe to btw) because the west has to pay countries like china and india while we have to limit certain parts of our economy and they can do whatever they want for the next 13 years.

I could talk more but am out of time for today ;)

  • 26 months ago
  • 1 point

I also agree with Trump on the funding part. But that isn't what he had an abrupt change of heart on; he has in fact maintained that line consistently. It was whether NATO had any value at all anymore, that he suddenly flipflopped on.

I don't recall Trump ever issuing a warning to Assad prior to the April chemical attack. In fact, it caught everyone by surprise when it happened, especially considering how anti-interventionist Trump campaigned. And of course how emphatically he opposed intervention in Syria in 2013 (which of course he now ironically uses as a sign of Obama being weak). The reason he only struck one airfield is that the one strike was the warning, after the fact. Syria was flying planes out of that base the very next day. It didn't have a functional purpose at all.

It's been almost a week and I still haven't found time to write up just how wrong you are with this interpretation of the Paris Climate Accord. ;P

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  • 26 months ago
  • 2 points

Bernie Sanders ;)

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  • 26 months ago
  • 1 point

The reason that Sanders is partially so socialist is a method to differentiate himself from the other candidates. I think quite a few of his policies would have been quite beneficial for America, though some would have been a disaster in the making (that being said all the candidates had quite a few of those this time around)

  • 26 months ago
  • 1 point

socialism always leads to more debt, higher taxes and in the end disaster.

  • 26 months ago
  • 3 points

I have been following politics fairly closely since the election.

He has the composure and dignity of an upset 4 year old.

He weakens America's position globally and endangers our relationships with our allies.

He is a consummate narcissistic, and a compulsive liar.

He has refused to reveal his tax forms (no I do not count the one form over a decade ago), and lied about it being because he is being audited, despite the fact that the IRS said that was false.

He has refused to put his personal assets into a blind trust as he was legally required to, and makes up government positions for him to place his family in. Which is an absolutely insane amount of nepotism.

The most infuriating thing is watching the ever growing evidence of collusion with Russia and not seeing anything be done about it. Trump Jr's emails to Russians trying to get dirt on Hillary: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/07/11/donald-trump-jr-s-emails-about-meeting-a-russian-government-attorney-annotated/?utm_term=.2f7dd93cd3ff

Undisclosed hour-long meeting with Putin at G-20 summit: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-had-undisclosed-hour-long-meeting-with-putin-at-g20-summit/2017/07/18/39c18dd4-6bd0-11e7-96ab-5f38140b38cc_story.html?utm_term=.db2ca0be1e44

I'm pretty sure it's safe to say this is 100% not a normal presidency.

  • 26 months ago
  • 2 points

A lot of the "collusion" stuff has been shown to be fake and made up by democrats to try to get trump impeached.

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  • 26 months ago
  • 2 points
  • Part 1: Shown by Project Veritas were John Bonifield a Sr. Producer at CNN, admits to several beliefs that are in direct conflict with the official CNN narrative that Trump has colluded with Russia, and that Russia has interfered with the 2016 election. Bonifield expresses clear doubts that there is a fire behind the Russia smoke, stating, “I haven’t seen any good enough evidence to show that the President committed a crime.” He also confirms suspicions that CNN staff is ideologically biased against Trump, stating, “I know a lot of people don’t like him and they’d like to see him get kicked out of office…”

vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdP8TiKY8dE

  • Part 2: Van Jones: Russia is “Nothing burger”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2G360HrSAs

  • Part 3: Jimmy Carr, the Associate Producer for CNN's New Day attacking President Donald Trump and admitting that CNN has a left-leaning bias.

When asked by an undercover journalist if CNN is impartial, Carr plainly responded, "In theory."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dRGMME4VnM

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  • 26 months ago
  • 1 point

How does he endangers the relationship with US allies?

Why is it bad for the US to talk with Russia? Its a good thing for 2 superpowers who can both destroy the world to talk again in my opinion. Under Obama relations with Russia were to say the least very bad.

  • 26 months ago
  • 4 points

The two are pretty related.

Russia is not, and will likely never be, an ally of the U.S. so long as Putin's oligarchy control things. Russia's expansionist policies are destabilizing eastern europe and are completely against the interest of the EU and NATO.

Under Obama relations with Russia were BAD because they were invading Crimea, Ukraine and Georgia. Putin is basically a massive authoritarian ******** who wants to regain former soviet territory and allowing him to accrue power just makes him even more of a threat.

Having a president that sucks up to Putin despite Russia's clear antagonism to NATO is one part of many that makes Trump both a laughing stock and untrustworthy to European allies. Someone so willing to brazenly meet in secret with someone trying to undermine western democracy does not exactly make a good ally.

Further details: https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2017/01/09/why-russia-cannot-become-our-friend-memo-to-president-trump/#79ef53337cda

  • 26 months ago
  • 1 point

so your reasoning is that if it's bad to ally with a country, then you should be shamed for trying to make peace with them?

  • 26 months ago
  • 3 points

My reasoning is that maintaining our current allies is more important than trying to make friends with a hostile nation that meddles with our elections.

What is so difficult to understand about that.

  • 26 months ago
  • 2 points

Obama knew in 2016 that russia was maybe trying to influence the elections. So the main question is why didn't he do something about it? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/23/obama-cia-warning-russia-election-hack-report

  • 26 months ago
  • 1 point

Yeah because allegations are always true.

  • 26 months ago
  • 0 points

ABout Ukraine. Europe also had a huge roll in destabilizing Ukraine. Many EU politicians went to Ukraine and gave speeches to the public on maidan square telling that the people will be victorious right before the governement of Viktor Janoekovitsj fell.

Russia acted right when Viktor Janoekovitsj fell and wanted to secure its harbour which you can't blame them for doing since its their only warm water port in the region.

  • 26 months ago
  • 1 point

Here is proof for people who think am lying about members of European Parliament speaking before maidan:

http://www.euractiv.com/section/eu-elections-2014/video/guy-verhofstadt-speaking-to-protesters-in-maidan-square-kiev/

  • 26 months ago
  • 1 point

Your getting downvoted for stating your opinion, have a +1.

  • 26 months ago
  • 1 point

Doesn't bother me that i get downvoted but thank you for the +1! ;)

  • 26 months ago
  • 2 points

I understand that, but still, you were just disagreeing, not attacking someone.

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  • 26 months ago
  • 3 points

If he were just an ignorant jerk who I disagreed with politically, I could probably deal with it.

What troubles me is that it looks more and more like the Trump admin is concealing some kind of criminal activity in regards to the Russia investigation. They are lying an awful lot for people who are supposed to be innocent, and firing and trying to discredit Comey (Who not less than a few months ago was considered a hero by Trump supporters for reopening the HRC email investigation) was probably the first red flag that pushed the collusion connection from conspiracy theory to there definitely being something going on (though not necessarily related to Russia).

Now that Mueller is heading the special investigation, I feel it is inevitable that Trump fires him regardless of bipartisan support for his nomination or how bad it looks. If whatever he is likely to uncover is worse than the bad press for firing him, it will happen. Who knows what kind of shitstorm that could inspire, though given how comparatively little fuss was thrown at him blatantly firing Comey for not dropping the Russia investigation like Trump wanted (Which he admitted to being his reason during an interview) maybe not as much as one would expect.

  • 26 months ago
  • 2 points

I don't know as an European i just was wondering you had 2 horrible choices, don't you guys have any other parties to vote for?

But on the other hand i lost all my faith in politics anyways... so you could also say i'd really don't care anymore, i'm just waiting for the next revolution

  • 26 months ago
  • 1 point

US has many smaller parties like the Libertarian Party or Green Party or Independents and so on. But the leader on the Libertarian Party made a big error on national television when he was asked what he thought about the situation in Aleppo when it was besieged by SAA. He didn't knew what Aleppo was and so ended any hope of making gains.

And the Greens well many of their policies are being taken over by the democrats so no reason to vote for them.

But the biggest reason why people don't vote for them is because a large part of the US don't vote cause they don't care and the budgets of those small parties are to small to have an effective nation wide campaign.

(just my personal opinion and i also live in Europe).

  • 26 months ago
  • 1 point

the leader on the Libertarian Party made a big error on national television when he was asked what he thought about the situation in Aleppo when it was besieged by SAA. He didn't knew what Aleppo was and so ended any hope of making gains.

Yeah that was pretty embarrassing.

  • 26 months ago
  • 2 points

I cannot say if America is going forward or not. What I can say is it's clear that Trump's administration to date has been disappointing. He's surrounded himself with people in over their head. Perhaps that will work itself out in due time as the country must run with or without coherent governance from the top.

Trump himself has failed at passing for a decent human being, but I expected that from him. He will always be compared/contrasted to Obama and he just doesn't have that grace and dignity. He will always be vile, robotic, and aloof. It's pure folly to suggest that his antics are somehow groundbreaking.

The good news is at the end of the day whatever he destroys domestically can either be restored or perhaps needed to be removed or altered.

In terms of foreign policy it's hard to be any worse than some of the prior administrations but gosh darn it give him a chance.

  • 26 months ago
  • 1 point

I don't exactly like his policies or the things he says but nothing has happened to me up to this point so I guess it's fine?

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  • 26 months ago
  • 1 point

I feel as if the media does seem to exaggerate things, yes, but that doesn't make him a good person either. Just for the record I didn't like either of them #ripberniesanders. Now as far as his presidency it's been a mixed bag between the shady deals, shenanigans and misogyny I don't know. As long as I don't have to be affected by his poor decisions and management skills I'm fine. Might I also add that this man has no political experience and won the election based on anger and making false promises.

  • 26 months ago
  • 1 point

I could fairly easily get to the Pentagon from my home so, if there were say a freakin Missle our way I would be some of the first people to hear politically and legitimately. And Donald Trump/Congress is reversing everything they don't like instead of out doing Obama and Congress from 2008-2016. Which makes absolutely zero sense call Obamacare "A Waste of resources and time". When a large part of our Budget is spent on the Military, but we're shocked at how we're in close to 25 billon in debt. Millions of people use Obamacare to support their families and ensure healthcare for everyone. So yay and btw I get a great view of the Washington Monument too.

  • 25 months ago
  • 1 point

but we're shocked at how we're in close to 25 billon in debt

It's closer to 20 trillion

  • 25 months ago
  • 1 point

Yes, I meant Trillion not Billions.

  • 25 months ago
  • 1 point

All good. Excellent point above btw.

  • 25 months ago
  • 1 point

Thanks, I feel really bad about our current situation.

  • 25 months ago
  • 1 point

You must live close to me =)

DC or NOVA? I live in NOVA.

  • 25 months ago
  • 1 point

The comments though

  • 25 months ago
  • 1 point

I think I have never been more interested in mid term elections in my life. I have been less politically active than I should have for the last 10 years or so... Time for that to change.

  • 26 months ago
  • 0 points

I generally like Trump, and some of his beliefs and policies. I think the USA is going to be fine, if not better than it already was. Here's to hoping though. Who knows, he may go down as one of the bests. Only time will tell.

  • 26 months ago
  • -1 points

I think he isn't as bad as the media and others portray him to be.

  • 26 months ago
  • 1 point

Yea

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  • 26 months ago
  • 1 point

You don't have to take the middle ground if something or someone is objectively not middle-ground-worthy.

You don't strive for the middle-ground between the Flat Earth Society vs astronomy and physics. This is something the failing main-stream media often does with things, which is a disservice to us all.

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