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Topic

Nullarc77 14 months ago

With AMD recently saying that Ryzen Second Generation will be using a new 12nm Zen+ architecture and still support the current AM4 platform, It kinda makes Intel's excuse about coffee lake not being supported on 100 and 200 series chipsets even more stupid. In fact AMD is going to be using the AM4 platform until 2020 when they release Ryzen 3(If there are no delays of course) With minor chipset upgrades along the way but with a bios update you will be able to throw a Ryzen 3 cpu into an X370 motherboard. So what do you all think about this whole thing?

Comments Sorted by:

Captaincow285 4 points 14 months ago

I love AMD's policies.

AMD: Hey guys! What do you think of our CPU? Do you like it? We've thrown in all the best tech we have!

Intel: We're going to only put some of our features in our CPUs, leave security flaws wide-open for years and then make you sell a kidney for our CPUs!

Gilroar 1 Build 1 point 14 months ago

It kinda makes Intel's excuse about coffee lake not being supported on 100 and 200 series chipsets even more stupid.

Consider the issues of trying to run this

On This

Giving This

If they supported backwards compatibility in this case.

But I am glad to see AMD addressing power consumption on Ryzen hopefully the 400 series motherboard will offer better overclocking options giving the lack of decent boards with 300 series.

tragiktimes101 1 Build 1 point 14 months ago

The chips will also be unlocked, like all Ryzen hardware, so owners can overclock the snot out of them, potentially netting gains of up to 40 percent with the right settings and a bit of luck.

-Matt Smith (Digital Trends)

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/amd-second-gen-ryzen-news/

Not sure how true this is, though.

Gilroar 1 Build 1 point 14 months ago

Stock to overclocked GPU and 2400mhz RAM to 3600mhz.

Giving the scaling on previous generations of APU believable on synthetic benchmarks question will be how they scale in real world benchmarks.

Nullarc77 submitter 3 Builds 1 point 14 months ago

I don't think people would try to run an 8700k on an h110 mobo anyway. Yeah there would have been some problems but they could have found a way around it. Even a few of the motherboard manufacturers said that the 8th chips could have been backwards compatible.

genhttps://www.techpowerup.com/237957/asus-confirms-z270-platform-could-be-compatible-with-intel-coffee-lake-cpus

AMD did say that the new motherboards and cpus would offer much better overclocking. One of their new APUs has a boost clock of 3.9ghz out of the box with a base clock of 3.7ghz. And that is still using the existing Ryzen architecture. Its a great time to be an AMD fan.

tragiktimes101 1 Build 1 point 14 months ago

But part of the reason for the new platform was requests made at the behest of motherboard manufacturers so they could sell new boards...Not that this was the only reason by any means.

Gilroar 1 Build 1 point 14 months ago

I don't think people would try to run an 8700k on an h110 mobo anyway.

See that is the problem with backwards compatibility and upgrade, paths some people will and then you have all the issues of throttling because of power draw being beyond what the board can supply.

AMD did say that the new motherboards and cpus would offer much better overclocking.

I wouldn't expect much more out of them honestly on the best of what is available now you still don't see them getting past 4.1-4.2ghz even with voltage headroom which really looks to me like an architectural limitation not process.

I can see them moving up the average range which seems to be 3.7-3.8ghz on all cores when overclocking.

One of their new APUs has a boost clock of 3.9ghz out of the box with a base clock of 3.7ghz. And that is still using the existing Ryzen architecture.

Easily believable that is what models like the 1600X/1800X do now so its not really groundbreaking.

I am more happy to see them addressing things like heatsink quality on motherboards on the new Gigabyte X470 Gaming 7 there is a real overclocking board built to be an overclocking board.

Nullarc77 submitter 3 Builds 1 point 14 months ago

Yeah the overclocking potential of Zen+ will not be that much greater then Zen. I think your 4.2ghz estimate is probably what we will see on average. The 3.7ghz is higher then any previous Ryzen base clock only by 100mhz but that proves that just says that these chips will be able to overclock slightly better. I think with the APUs we will see 4ghz on average for a small overclock. But we will need to wait till feb 12 to find out. But its clear that unless intel was a new architecture up their sleeve, AMD will give them some strong competition. But if Intel keeps abandoning platforms 8 months after they are released then AMD is going to take control of the desktop side of thing. And if their APUs are as good as they say then gamers on a small budget will get an AMD chip for the ability to upgrade in the future. Buying a cpu and gpu for $170 that can run esports titles and most modern games at 1080p will present some problems for intel.

Gilroar 1 Build 1 point 14 months ago

AMD is doing the same though with them converting all the GP lanes to Gen 3.0 there is no reason to purchase a 300 series once 400 launches and a meaningful reason to upgrade.

As far as the APU performance I am not holding my breath as a former APU user the performance from synthetics never scales into real world uses let alone the massive need for fast RAM in the current marketplace for getting performance from the integrated graphics.

Don't get me wrong I am waiting on CPU side benchmarks from them since they use a single CCX design so latency will be much lower with less reliance on fast RAM for CPU usage with a discrete card unlike the R3.

That is where I see massive potential in them, Not as APU losing 2gb on a 8gb system to VRAM means you run out depressingly often so they benefit from having 16gb of RAM more then normal so not cheap, for best performance they Need fast RAM so really not cheap.

But paired with a decent lower end card reasonable speed RAM dual ranked for interleave if possible, I think they will be a golden little system with the integrated graphics for backup if needed.

TheShadowGuy 1 point 14 months ago

But they also block it from running on, say, this. I can understand not wanting to imitate AMD's "These new FX chips lit my motherboard on fire" situation, but it still seems like a poor way to do it.

Hopefully the Ryzen refresh doesn't hit as harsh a voltage wall at ~4GHz. Even if other improvements are marginal, just being able to clock 500MHz higher (with same cooling) would be a nice boost.

Gilroar 1 Build 1 point 14 months ago

I can understand not wanting to imitate AMD's "These new FX chips lit my motherboard on fire" situation, but it still seems like a poor way to do it.

Agreed they should have changed the socket to simplify things.

Hopefully the Ryzen refresh doesn't hit as harsh a voltage wall at ~4GHz.

Voltage wall is independent of the clock speed wall on current models.

You can voltage wall much earlier or even find examples of them not voltage walling but clock speed walling which is an architectural limitation.

Like the 1900X runs 3.9ghz stock will turbo to 4.1ghz. Overclock it you get to 4.0ghz maybe 4.2ghz if you are very lucky and push the chip hard.

On current Ryzen we are seeing both kinds of walls limiting overclocking, it is just a case of which you hit first.