For me, breaking it down by components, it's something like....
(Component: Budget | "Normal" | High End | Ludicrous/Extreme
CPU: <$90 | $100-250 | $250-350 | > $350
CPU Cooler: <$20 | $20-40 | $40-80 | >$80
Motherboard: <$70 | $70-150 | $150-200 | >$200
Memory: <$40 | $40-90 | $90-150 | >$150 (this is approximate. prices can be quite volatile; also this could be considered per purchase or per build, not per stick oer per GB)
Storage: <$50 | $50-150 | $150-275 | >$275 (Similar caveats as with Memory)
Video Card: <$80 | $80-225 | $225-350 | >$350
Case: <$40 | $40-80 | $80-130 | >$130
Power Supply: <$50 | $50-90 | $90-150 | >$150
Monitor: <$100 | $100-300 | $300-400 | >$400
Keyboard: <$10 | $10-30 | $30-80 | >$80
Mouse: <$10 | $10-40 | $40-60 | >$60
Some other parts I don't have much of an opinion on high end vs midrange vs budget prices; although in general I think I consider "high end" what many others might consider "low to midrange". :)
Also the tiers could probably use some adjustments. For example, maybe adjust the upper end of "high end" on CPUs to be where the Ryzen 7 1700X is at MicroCenter ($150), or where LGA115x i7-K CPUs had been on Black Friday at MicroCenter until Skylake (around $250 or less). Budget might be about what dual-core or non-HT LGA 771 or 1366 Xeons (the ones whose MSRPs were < $300-400) are going for on eBay. (I've seen some around $5.)
If you haven't upgraded yet, what board are you using with the 4570? Also have you considered a Xeon, or considered getting a CPU from eBay? (Depending on what CPU you upgrade to, you might need a BIOS update to support it.)
I was looking a little just now, and see that i7-4790Ks are starting around $210 shipped on ebay. Also there's the 4770K for as low as $150, or the locked-multiplier 4770 for around $130.
As for Xeons, a couple options might be the E3-1265L v3 or E3-1245 v3, both around $115. They're fairly close in performance to each other (1245 maybe a little better than 1265L) but the 1265L has a little more than half the power consumption / TDP if that matters to you.
From what I can tell, the two Xeons are between the 4570 and the 4790K in both single and multi-threaded performance. There are also Xeons without the integrated graphics, but I think the iGPU can be used for encoding even when using the dGPU for games, in some situations.
Personally, I actually pretty much always use the desktop pcpartpicker site on my phone, it works better for me that way.
I just wish I could do multiple builds at once like I can on desktop with a Chrome extension. (My current workaround is to navigate to the perma URL for where I am on one parts list and have that open in a tab, then work on another list in another tab.)
Maybe you could implement some sort of "solved" icon in the thread title, I think I've seen that used on other forums like LTT, Tom's Hardware, etc.
Also on tracking prices of hardware, I wish it was possible to go back beyond two years in the graphs on the product pages, as well as narrowing the window to a narrower range that doesn't go to "now" - for example July 2016 to December 2016, or January 2008 to January 2009 or something like that. For example, I paid $126.99 + tax for a G.Skill 32GB (2x16G) DDR4-2133 SO-DIMM RAM kit in October 2016 (and missed out on a $119.99 sale), but can no longer go back that far and see the lowest price it has ever been.
Also I wish that when logged in, my preferences on rebates, shipping, taxes, etc. were reflected in the graphs. For example, I always uncheck mail-in rebates, and would prefer that they not be reflected in the graphs. If a product has a $99.99 price with a $25 MIR at a given time, it should show as $99.99 if I have MIR disabled, and $74.99 if I have it allowed. (Also I personally uncheck sellers that don't always show shipping costs, like superbiiz for example.)
That would be nice to see. For example the Supermicro MBD-X10DRI-O is listed as EATX, and the Fractal Design Define R6 supports EATX motherboards. However, the X10DRI is a 13" (330mm) wide EATX board (same as SSI EEB*), but the Define R6 only supports boards up to 285mm (11.22") wide. Yet when I add the two to a parts list, it says "√ Compatibility Check: No issues/incompatibilities found." https://pcpartpicker.com/list/fDYjD2
The Silverstone GD08B mentions EATX support, but it does support 13" / 330mm wide boards. Their site even mentions SSI EEB support, but pcpartpicker maxes out at EATX for that product. (The GD07B does mention EEB support on its pcpp page.)
*Personally, I think cases shouldn't be specified as EATX compatible unless they support 13" / 330mm wide boards. Another term should be used for the 10.5" or so width "eatx" enthusiast boards, which happens to be similar to SSI CEB.
I believe it supports SMT, but the listing on PCPP says it doesn't. (The NewEgg listing and AMD's site both say it does support it though, so, 2 cores, 4 threads.)
Gives me an idea - when I get some time post-Cyber-Monday I'll see if there's something I can do here.
Gives me an idea - when I get some time post-Cyber-Monday I'll see if there's something I can do here.
Ahh, that might be interesting, hope you can come up with something to add the perma URLs in history or something like that.
Speaking of which, I just noticed the history button which shows the list of changes you've made, along with a visibly-truncated link to each permalink URL. (I'm sure it's been there a long time, I just noticed it though.)
Maybe there'd be some way of reviewing that history even after closing a session? :)
Would that be sites like ... I don't want to say the names, but one has a 3 character url with a number in the middle, and the other I remember has a 7 character url name that ends in "n". I've never bought / sold on those sites, but I've always been wary of them. I'd rather pay $80-120 for a license and KNOW it's good, than pay $20-30 for a "license" then find out weeks, months, years, or decades (yes I sit on things that long before upgrading sometimes, because there isn't a big enough leap in performance/features/etc otherwise) later that it wasn't a legit license. :/
Personally, though, I wish Windows cost the same as most distros of Linux. :p
That gets me thinking...
Instead of the default URL always being just https://pcpartpicker.com/list/ (which is generic, and you lose your list when, as @philip said, you clear cookies, use a different PC, etc), maybe there'd be a way of automatically saving the specific parts list URL in browser history (like https://pcpartpicker.com/list/6RPLhq ) so that if you close your session accidentally, you can easily restore your parts list. :)
Hey Philip is there a way to resize the comment window width? It's only taking about 1/3rd of my screen's width. (I was about to reply to cristiancl's comment and it was taking about 1/10th then.)
Also I have a multilogin plugin on Chrome, which allows me to be working on several parts lists at once from the same browser, I think it uses a separate session cookie for each group of tabs. Sometimes I've had several dozen lists in progress at once.
When the browser crashes, though, those sessions get lost, so it'd be nice to a way of restoring the lists like I outlined above. (Sometimes I'll get lucky and copy the permalink URL and navigate to that before it crashes, but sometimes it crashes before I can do anything.)
Also, often when restoring a session with a lot of PCPP tabs, or even when I just mousewheel-click down a list of parts to open them in new tabs, I often get things like https://pcpartpicker.com/ratelimit/?marker=pl______×tamp=1508838441&target=%2Flist%2FRDxR6X&verify=7e9ee68ece892fadf2b7a7c73b4ea18972d4112d&periods=60%2C300 which slows me WAY down. :( Any way I can fix that at my end so I can work faster with things on here? :)
I hope the custom part configurator is reimplemented soon. :) (I don't see it up right now even though I'm logged in.) I was gonna try to create some parts / price build lists with some older LGA1366 / LGA771 / Socket F dual or quad socket server motherboards that don't exist on the main site, for example. (A couple I have open in other tabs, just not on PCPP, are the Supermicro X8DT6 and H8DAE-2; last I looked on ebay they were $100 and $70 respectively.)
Thanks. :) It would be nice to have the option of separating them out, too, on a case-by-case basis. (Not in preferences / global.) Like, either "show only favorites", "don't show favorites", or "show all" (default, would behave like it used to before it glitched).
Okay then, any suggestions for streamlining a workaround?
Ok. Any idea about when it might be rolled out?
Also I just remembered something & went to test it.
So apparently motherboards ARE being filtered by type of drive, but not quantity of drives. I tried adding, one at a time, a U.2 drive, SAS drive, PATA drive & mSATA drive, and it only showed me boards with those connectors.
Hmm ... Okay then. This time I tried adding a CPU (like an i5-4690K, or an i7-5820K), a CPU cooler (Hyper 212 Evo) and RAM (a random 8GB DDR3-1600 stick), along with 16 hard drives (10 for the LGA1150 trial build).
It still wasn't filtering motherboards based on how many hard drives I have. :( I picked a random motheboard from the list, and of course the compatibility checker complained.
I ignored the complaint (for now), added four RX 480s (working down the list), then went to add a case.
The filter still ignored how many hard drives I already had in the list. :(
Is there a better way to do it? Trying each individual case or motherboard is WAY too tedious, and so is trying each possible combination of 3.5" & 5.25" bays or SATA/SAS ports. (And I think SAS isn't even filterable manually.) I want to filter motherboards and cases based on how many drives (or video cards or whatever), not the other way around.
For example let's say I want to put 12 3.5" drives in a case, and I don't care if I have to put them in 3.5 or 5.25 inch bays. I don't want to have to manually filter the cases like...
: 12 ext 5.25", 0-8 ext 3.5", 0-20 int 3.5"
: 11-12 ext 5.25", 1-8 ext 3.5", 0-20 int 3.5"
: 10-12 ext 5.25", 1-8 ext 3.5", 1-20 int 3.5"
: 2-12 ext 5.25", 2-8 ext 3.5", 8-20 int 3.5"
and so on. A quick estimate has me guessing there'd be several dozen combinations of filters required to try. :( I'm trying to streamline the process to just one filter or something like that, if at all possible.
I think it used to work a long time ago - if I added a lot of certain parts like hard drives, it would greatly reduce my options. If I added, say, 32 hard drives, then nothing would pass the filter criteria since nothing on pcpp supports that many drives natively. Now if I could do quad or 8-socket server builds with rackmount cases with dozens of hot-swap bays.... but that's not even in the same galaxy as my budget, & I'm guessing a little outside the scope of pcpartpicker?
Just checked again, and the auto-compatibility filter still isn't working right. :( With those 18 hard drives in the above build, only a couple boards should come up when the compatibility filter is enabled. These are the AsRock Z87 Extreme11/ac and the AsRock X99 Extreme11. (Note that SATA drives should work with SAS ports, but not vice versa.)
How long should it be until this is fixed? It checks whether it has a particular compatible connector, but not how many.
I've sometimes tried putting together an insane parts list too. :) On a good day I've exceeded $300K, by using the most expensive parts & vendors, a ton of SSDs (like the 3.8TB Samsungs), including in external drives populating every single USB port (minus keyboard & mouse), and populating every single GPU port with an expensive monitor, like an Eizo 4K. With 4 FirePro W9100s (6 mini DPs each) in Crossfire, that would be 24 monitors. :)
Of course the value for the money would be terrible. :p
I haven't yet ordered from them. Doesn't mean I wouldn't sometime in the future, at least yet.
There is one major sticking point with me, though, not just with their site, but several others, including NCIX, regarding price interaction with PCPP.
Specifically, shipping costs aren't factored in. :(
When I'm pricing a build, I want to know the TOTAL cost. For that reason, on my own personal filters, I've put sales tax on all vendors (due to my state's law on use tax), filtered out MIRs, and also filtered out any vendor that doesn't specify shipping cost on PCPP. On a parts list, they'll have a blank space in the shipping column and a + by the total price column. (I do have MicroCenter still enabled, but that's for their in-store pricing. And even that isn't working properly right now even though I'm within range of the one in the L.A. area.)
The issues some people are mentioning with shipping do concern me, though. Typically if I order stuff from Newegg (my personal favorite retailer currently), I get it at my house east of San Diego the next day or the following day. (There have been exceptions though.) If I order from B&H or Adorama, I usually get it in 3-4 days. (Of course that doesn't count the weekend.)
Monday reached 109°F where I live, with <16% humidity. (This is near Rancho San Diego, CA.) Tuesday was "only" like 92° or so.
Our house doesn't have A/C, but we run fans overnight & have managed to keep it from climbing over 80-82 in the house so far this year.
In recent years, I've seen it like 88-90 at 10pm-midnight in the house, though, if we didn't use the fan in the window.
One year maybe 20 years ago, we had a really hot summer - reaching 117°F! From what I remember, it was pretty uncomfortable in the house, too - the almost-90 in recent years didn't hold a candle. I think it could have been 100°F in the house that year, WITH several fans running!
Call me sadistic, but I'm almost hoping for a 100° indoor day, cause I want to set up an overclock on my 4790K (with 212 Evo on Z97 Extreme6) on a worst-case-scenario day. Or maybe we could have 120°F outside with ground temps upwards of 180-200°F? Then maybe I could do the setup & testing outside? :p (I suppose I'd have issues though, if ambient temps were higher than thermal throttle temps, right?)
Ive been having issues with it recently.
For example, start a build with 18 SATA drives, then go to the motherboard picker. It brings up every board with a SATA-compatible port, and doesn't limit to those with 18 or more, like the ASRock X99 Extreme11. (That one has 10 SATA & 18 SAS ports.)
Same thing happens with other types of drives too, like IDE, PCI-E, etc.
It's like it only checks whether it has that interface, not how many it needs.
Also when combining GPUs & PCI-E SSDs, it has room for improvement. For example, if I put 4 Quadro M6000s and 3 Intel 4TB DC P3608s on an Asus Z10PE-D8 WS board, it doesn't complain, because the board has 7 slots.
But, the GPUs are double-slot. So, it should say something like "You have too many wide PCI-e parts, use single-slot GPUs or watercool the ones you have."
Also it'd be nice to be able to specify general preferences when filtering parts, like how many SATA-compatible ports are on board, regardless of speed, or how many SSD mounts in a case, even if you have to use 5.25" bays cause you run out of smaller bays. This would be before I've added the drives to the build. With them added, it should filter accordingly, but see above.
What @TheCableGuy said is right, I believe.
Also, in my state - California, we have use tax. If I buy anything out of state, I owe tax come April 15. It's basically the same as sales tax would be - like 7.5% on Newegg, or some places 8% or 9%.
Or, so I thought. When I was figuring my taxes this last April 2016, I only had to pay $2, on about $1200 or so of items. (That's what TurboTax told me, I'd have to check to be sure.) No one item was over $700 - I think it changes at $1K for any 1 item. I remember also seeing a table somewhere, but can't recall where.
At idle, I think it's the case fans that came with my Rosewill Thor V2.
Under load, it's the Hyper 212 Evo on my currently-stock i7-4790K. I don't have a GPU yet.
I was really hoping when I built it about 17 months ago that it'd be much quieter. I like to record piano music, and my piano is also my computer desk. Even at idle, the computer noise is picked up on the microphone+recorder I use (Zoom H2n). To totally silence it, I'd have to power the PC OFF, which would prevent me viewing sheet music or other related things.
I suppose I could use my gaming laptop, which is silent on idle. But, under load it's much louder than the desktop, so I'd have to underclock it.
Hopefully whatever future change I make to curb noise will silence the beast. (I'd like it as quiet under load/stress as it is when powered off.) I'm not planning to get a new case, PSU, board or CPU for another 4-6 years or so, so hopefully better 230mm case fans & a better cooler fan would help. Then my blu-ray writer and three 4TB HDDs would still be loud, but not much I can do about that yet. Flash media isn't yet down to the price of bulk BD-R's or DVD-R's yet, nor are SSDs priced the same per TB as HDDs.
I'm watching the replay right now (wish I'd been around to watch the stream, maybe I can watch the build on Thursday?) ... and while you're in the CPU coolers segment, I was reminded of a type of filter I'd like to see.
I noticed you've added radiator mm size to the water coolers, but for air...
I'd like to filter based on included fan size, as well as...
"stock" style - no heatpipes - like the boxed Intel coolers tha come with some of their CPUs, or the Rosewill RCX-Z775-LP, Thermaltake CL-P008-AL09WT-A, or Silverstone NT07-115X
(The ID-Cooling IS-25i, similar price range and low profile, does have heatpipes, so filtering on height alone isn't good enough.)
low-profile with heatpipes - like the Noctua NH-L9x65 (not sure if the L9i has heatpipes or not), or the Cryorig C7
single tower - like the 212 Evo
dual tower - like the Noctua NH-D15
Any chance something like this could be implemented? I think the ability to filter out the "stock" style heatsinks would quickly filter out a lot of the dirt-cheap $10 or so coolers, as most in that price range (maybe up to like $15 or $20 or so) seem to be that style. There are exceptions, like the ID-Cooling sink I mentioned above, although that's not a brand I particularly think of first when looking for CPU coolers. Also the Cryorig M9i seems to be around $20, and it's a smaller tower heatsink.
Also... "We're in Austin ... Newegg's west coast ... takes a couple days for things to get here..."
I happen to be somewhat east of San Diego, CA, only about an hour and 45-50 minute drive from Newegg's Hybrid Center. Too bad they're not open on Sundays, because once a month I drive almost RIGHT by there (on the 60) on the way to a church Bible study meeting a few miles away. :)
Even when having them ship things, though, I usually get them the very next day, even without bumping up to expedited shipping.
Ahh, I hear ya. :) I've been toying with the idea of building a dedicated NAS as well, but I haven't really done much recently. Among other things, I was considering using FreeNAS, with a ZFS filesystem or something that would need ECC memory, so I was looking at that when I was looking through parts lists.
I'd be doing it on a budget, though, so a high-end Xeon CPU would be way overkill for me. Unfortunately it looks like ECC RAM isn't supported on budget mainboards, even though the Celeron, Pentium and i3 CPUs support it. So I could use a Celeron G1840, but I'd need to pair it with something like an ASRock E3C224 board. And I'd be limited to about 32 TB of HDDs due to the 1 GB RAM for each TB storage for FreeNAS and ECC, if I understand right. The Supermicro X10SL7-F for about $265 has a total of 14 SATA-compatible ports (8 are SAS), but it still is limited to 32 GB RAM. Some X99 boards support like 128GB, but at prices like that, and considering cases, it almost seems better to build multiple cheaper NAS boxes, I'm not sure. If I was building around the E3C224, one case I think I'd probably use would be something like the NZXT Source 210 Elite or Source 220.
But as I said, if I was building a personal NAS, it'd be on a budget. For example, I'd want my hard drives (If I was buying now, I'd be using the 5TB WD Reds or the 4TB HGST NAS drives) to cost considerably more than everything else combined (CPU, Mobo, RAM, GPU if necessary, etc). If I could get everything except the hard drives and the monitor for around $150-200 total, I think I'd be pretty happy.
Who says a NAS can't be a gaming PC, or two? :) I saw a couple videos on Linus Tech Tips where they did just that. :)
I was aware of that. :)
Investigating further, I noticed also that the Newegg prices for be quiet! and RAIJINTEK coolers (if I spelled that correctly) are also no longer listed on PCPP. Those 2 brands are also sold directly by their respective brands, and shipped by Newegg. I haven't investigated other parts like cases, etc, to see if the same thing is happening there, but ...
My preliminary conclusion is that PCPP appears to have removed prices from 3rd-party sellers, at least for Newegg. I haven't checked Amazon yet but considering there are still a lot of Core 2 Duo CPUs listed, I'm suspecting that's not the case there.
I'm finding the same issue, even though a few weeks ago they were all showing up. Yet, if you go on Newegg, they're still available. (Also would this be better in the Forum Feedback section?)
One thing I've noted is that they're sold by CRYOSTORE, not Newegg. (Clicking on individual ones reveals they're shipped by the egg, though.) Could that have something to do with it - maybe PCPP has changed so it only lists parts sold by the actual site, not a 3rd party?
This reminds me of a feature I'd like - the ability to filter results based on whether they're sold by newegg (or Amazon or whoever), or by a 3rd party, or sold AND shipped by a 3rd party through the main site (az/ne). (Also I'd like the ability to filter based on customer reviews at those sites, professional review scores, etc.)
And like I saw in another topic, filtering out long-discontinued products would be nice as well. (The other topic was on sorting by release date.) I often see Core2Duos listed on Amazon marked as still available on here, but weren't those CPUs discontinued a few years ago?
Another thing I thought of ... would it be a good idea to wait until Black Friday? If so, though ... I'll need to modify my parts list to have multiple options, as it took a couple weeks to research this one and decide what to put in the list. (And I won't know what goes on sale until it actually does go on sale.)
jonnyguru, what Seasonic models are you referring to?
I'm working on a parts list for my parents, and am mostly considering Seasonic PSUs. (Also the 550-watt EVGA that got a 10 score on JG is a possibility, but a bit over budget, and about 3x more wattage than the anticipated build, using an i5-6500 and iGPU, is currently expected to use.)
Some SS models I'm looking at are
the SSP-300ST or SSP-350ST (but one vendor says they only have 1x sata & 1x molex connector),
the SS-300ET, SS-350ET or SS-400ET (but no claims to Haswell compatibility, and a few minutes ago I saw one of them mentioned in a forum post on JG from 2008, also being able to hibernate/sleep is good so those may be out, even though they have enough connectors),
the SSP-450RT (gold, the others are bronze).
All the above are OEM units, and I haven't found any reviews done by the JG site (OklahomaWolf). Also the short cable lengths are a concern, as we'd be using a bottom-PSU-mounted case like the Xion XON-360, NZXT Source 210 Elite, Fractal Design Core 1500 or Arc Mini 2, or something like that.
Other SeaSonics I'm considering are the S12II 350 or 430 watt, G-series 360 or 450 watt, or S12G-450.
Are there any good, low-power (250 to 400 watt) units around the prices of those OEM Seasonic units that get close to a 10 score on JG? (I'd be willing to sacrifice modularity, and a "0-3" or so on aesthetics would be fine.)
Also for my parents who are typical home users, would 80+ Bronze be sufficient or 80+ Gold be better in the long term for electricity $ savings? (The current rate here I think is 29¢/kWh, and knowing SDG&E is likely to go up.) They're likely to keep the computer for 5 to 7 years, I'm guessing. They're lighter users than me, and right now the Kill-A-Watt my Corsair AX760 (through a power strip which also includes a Dell U2414H monitor) is plugged into is telling me it's drawing about 83 watts. (It's powering an i7-4790K, ASRock Z97 Extreme6, 3x 4TB HDDs & a few other light things, no discrete GPU though.)
Maybe we should just go for a 500-watt Hercules or Allied/Deer. (just kidding! :D) Okay I'll confess I'm looking forward to the next "gutless wonder" review ... maybe one that explodes violently enough to shatter the outer casing just on the standby load? :p
Now what single case and mobo available via PCPP has enough drive bays and SATA ports to house all those drives at once? :D
And how long before we see the 16 TB SSD that Samsung announced in August? :)
And also what about a PSU that has enough overall power available and enough SATA power plugs? And speaking of PSUs, a couple weeks ago I was trying to configure a system with quad-crossfire Radeon R295X2's (I mean 4 of those cards), and it kept telling me I didn't have enough power for that system cause apparently PCPP doesn't recognize dual-PSU cases or something like that. (No I wasn't going to buy said system, was just having a little fun with the configurator.)